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Did not like Maggie.....actually prefer Katie.

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vtorch	Did not like Maggie.....actually prefer Katie.		Lead	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 51 07/20/08 7:32 PM	Tags : None I thought that Maggie had absolute NO CHEMISTRY with Aaron Eckhart and Christian Bale. Yeah, IMO, Maggie is a "better" actress then Katie, but the character of Rachel Dawes wasn't that important in The Dark Knight as it was in Batman Begins. In BB, calls for the character of Rachel to acts in a role of authority (D.A.), love interest, and as a moral compass. These are elements, IMO katier holmes had trouble bringing out in Rachel. Then, of course there was the issue of commanding a "presence" when she's in the same scene with Oldman, Caine, and Bale. However, here, in TDK, the character didn't have to do all that. All the character had to do was act a love interest or be in "love conflict." IMO, the chemistry between Gyllenhal and Eckhart wasn't that good, however, it was it tad better then Gyllenhal and Bale. I think one can make a solid case for continuity of the bruce/rachel storyline.
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evilskillz		#1	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 199 07/20/08 7:39 PM	I liked maggie better. Her role didn't demand much of her, and I think the girl has kinda been a throw away character in these two movies. But....I still think Maggie had more chemistry than Katie did. Maggie came off more natural to me, and a woman with some spunk to her. Katie came off as self righteous and annoying.
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FunnyManFan		#2	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 325 07/20/08 9:22 PM	I'm just glad we won't see her in BB3! THANK YOU JOKER!
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greggbray		#3	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 7255 07/20/08 10:23 PM Registered User	I'm on the opposite side of the fence. I thin the casting of Katie Holmes took the character down several pegs. I never bought her as an ADA. Maggie had a more sophisticated grasp of the character, and I actually empathized with her a great deal. I bought her relationship with Dent, and her friendship with Bruce. I understood why Bruce would want to be with her--she just had quite a bit going on. Katie's Rachel (and some of this was in Goyer's dialogue) spoke in, to my ears, childish platitudes. Honestly, 'you enjoy your party Bruce. Some of us have work to do.' ...it's his birthday, for crying out loud. The one day he can party and not feel bad about it... Thank you, 6 Joker 9 ! The preceeding post was intended for entertainment purposes only, and is, of course, in my humble opinion. Only friendly conversation was, and continues to be, intended.
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Batman is cool		#4	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 601 07/20/08 10:43 PM	I'll tell you why I don't like Maggie, and it's simply because she's not sexy at all. I mean, TDK is a colossal classic, but it's still a Batman movie, it still has a summer release date, can we afford to get somebody who we care about losing? I didn't care at all when Rachel dies, and I think it boils down to her not being attractive at all. Call me crazy, but damn Bale and Eckhart looked like they had to try real hard to be pretending to fight over her.
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tombofliegia		#5	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 228 07/20/08 10:46 PM	Why do people keep saying that, i think Maggie is beautiful, and vastly preferred her as Rachel. ...for we are trained in the ways of ninjitsu we strike hard* and fade away...*
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El Cuervo Muerto		#6	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 2264 07/20/08 10:50 PM	Agreed with Greg, althougth I didn't have a huge problem with Katie even thougth she was the weak link in that film. Oh and Maggie is sexy. Watch Secretary and then talk to me. God I would do evil things with that woman...
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Super Galvatron		#7	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 847 07/21/08 2:10 AM	I thought Maggie was far superior to Holmes. Far.
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TheScarecrowAA		#8	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 2130 07/21/08 2:52 AM	I thought Maggie had chemistry with both Bale and Eckhart. What you need to remember is that the romance between her and Bruce had completely fizzled and the romance between her and Dent was "comfortable". It wasn't something hot and heavy. I'll tell you why I don't like Maggie, and it's simply because she's not sexy at all. I mean, TDK is a colossal classic, but it's still a Batman movie, it still has a summer release date, can we afford to get somebody who we care about losing? I didn't care at all when Rachel dies, and I think it boils down to her not being attractive at all. Look, if you want "serious" movies, this shouldn't even be an issue for you. No one says "he's not pretty enough" when a boy is cast. It's never been said in any description of the character that she was even 'slightly pretty' let alone 'sexy' or 'beautiful'. In fact, in the original Begins script she's described as being several years older than Bruce and I'm also to believe that she's supposed to be quite 'run down'. Female characters simply aren't there to look pretty and be saved nowadays. I think that Bosworth could learn a few things from Maggie - her Rachel came off far more badass than Bosworth's Lois. Last Edited By: TheScarecrowAA 07/21/08 2:58 AM. Edited 1 time.
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greggbray		#9	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 7255 07/21/08 7:20 AM Registered User	"I'll tell you why I don't like Maggie, and it's simply because she's not sexy at all. I mean, TDK is a colossal classic, but it's still a Batman movie, it still has a summer release date, can we afford to get somebody who we care about losing? I didn't care at all when Rachel dies, and I think it boils down to her not being attractive at all. " Wow, that's shallow... Thank you, 6 Joker 9 ! The preceeding post was intended for entertainment purposes only, and is, of course, in my humble opinion. Only friendly conversation was, and continues to be, intended.
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AforE Drummer		#10	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 376 07/21/08 7:53 AM	Pshh. I say re-shoot Katie's scenes and re-release the film. Maggie was head and shoulders more into the role. Yes, I know asking for a re-shoot is asking the world, but in a perfect world it'd get done. Laugh at me at Myspace!
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BatCatFever		#11	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 1074 07/21/08 8:01 AM	I appreciate your honesty, but why is this not considered Nit-Picking? A thread based on someone being bad in TDK because they're not "sexy" to you? That's not even in one of Rachael Dawes' character requirements. Rachael Dawes: Spunky, Gold-heart, Assistant DA. Maggie fit that. The Dark Knight is shallowly-casted. Even the "hot" girls where only shown briefly in the movie. They were given about 5 second screen time. Compare that to Bond, Iron Man, Sin Ciity, 300 and movies alike. Nolan and the crew are just didn't want to waste their time on bs. In Begins, they made an exception, and that was Katie Holmes. My complaint was, well if you're going to go THAT route, cast someone REALLY HOT. Cast Jamie King! It's actually sad when I hear "Maggie is ugly" because I know she is not. Of course you have a right to say whatever, but Nolan did a good job putting an actor who's caliber was obviously "above" all that "typical bimbo" stuff across from Bruce. So I can see why Bruce wanted her. Because she didn't care about his fake Bruce Wayne...She wasn't so easily impressed. I'm kind of sad she was off-ed in TDK. I really wanted to see her being the reason Two-Face might turn good by the third movie. Last Edited By: BatCatFever 07/21/08 8:04 AM. Edited 1 time.
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vtorch		#12	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 51 07/21/08 8:52 AM	Batman is cool wrote: I'll tell you why I don't like Maggie, and it's simply because she's not sexy at all. I mean, TDK is a colossal classic, but it's still a Batman movie, it still has a summer release date, can we afford to get somebody who we care about losing? I didn't care at all when Rachel dies, and I think it boils down to her not being attractive at all. Call me crazy, but damn Bale and Eckhart looked like they had to try real hard to be pretending to fight over her. Exactly! Maggie just isn't sexy at all. However, Katie Holmes can be. Is Maggie a superior actress then Katie? Maybe. However in this case, I think there was more then sufficient reason to retain Katie Holmes for The Dark Knight movie.....or at least find someone who can at least match Katie Holmes sex appeal. Maggie with Eckhart was not a good match. Neither was Eckhart with Bale. One of the reasons, i say this or at least try to make this argument is because of Rachel's death scene. I didn't feel anything. It's like I hardly knew Maggie's Rachel. I understand the argument that Maggie may be a superior actress then Katie, but if she was cast in Batman Begins rather then Katie for that movie, then perhaps I would've felt Bruce's loss when she died. I swear, I didn't feel anything.
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vtorch		#13	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 51 07/21/08 8:59 AM	TheScarecrowAA wrote: I thought Maggie had chemistry with both Bale and Eckhart. What you need to remember is that the romance between her and Bruce had completely fizzled and the romance between her and Dent was "comfortable". It wasn't something hot and heavy. It completely fizzled? No it didn't. According to the dialogue, she still had a thing for Bruce, which led him to believe that Rachel would wait for him.
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greggbray		#14	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 7255 07/21/08 9:10 AM Registered User	Wow. So if an actress isn't sexy, you simply don't feel for the character. Wow. Unbelievable. Rachel turned down Bruce a few times in the film, if you recall correctly, and indicated a desire for space. Even their kiss in his penthouse felt more solemn, and desolate, as opposed to passionate. She and Eckhardt sold me immediately on their relationship, and I certainly bought her as an ADA. Holmes was out of her league with that role (Although, to be fair, it was so poorly written in BB there was very little even a more capable actress could have done). Aside from all this, you are free to have your preferences. But 'I didn't like her cuz she wasn't hawt' has got to be one of the biggest slices of nonsense on here I've read in some time. I'm with BatCatFever...THIS isn't nitpicking? ps--side bar-see Secretary. It may change your mind. Thank you, 6 Joker 9 ! The preceeding post was intended for entertainment purposes only, and is, of course, in my humble opinion. Only friendly conversation was, and continues to be, intended. Last Edited By: greggbray 07/21/08 9:16 AM. Edited 1 time.
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vtorch		#15	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 51 07/21/08 9:14 AM	BatCatFever wrote: I appreciate your honesty, but why is this not considered Nit-Picking? A thread based on someone being bad in TDK because they're not "sexy" to you? That's not even in one of Rachael Dawes' character requirements. Rachael Dawes: Spunky, Gold-heart, Assistant DA. Maggie fit that. The Dark Knight is shallowly-casted. Even the "hot" girls where only shown briefly in the movie. They were given about 5 second screen time. Compare that to Bond, Iron Man, Sin Ciity, 300 and movies alike. Nolan and the crew are just didn't want to waste their time on bs. In Begins, they made an exception, and that was Katie Holmes. My complaint was, well if you're going to go THAT route, cast someone REALLY HOT. Cast Jamie King! It's actually sad when I hear "Maggie is ugly" because I know she is not. Of course you have a right to say whatever, but Nolan did a good job putting an actor who's caliber was obviously "above" all that "typical bimbo" stuff across from Bruce. So I can see why Bruce wanted her. Because she didn't care about his fake Bruce Wayne...She wasn't so easily impressed. I'm kind of sad she was off-ed in TDK. I really wanted to see her being the reason Two-Face might turn good by the third movie. I take issue of what you are saying here. BB was not the exception in regards to the "hot girl" role you are expressing. Rachel had a real role in Bruce's life that Nolan wanted to relay to the audience. Rachel was Bruce's moral compass in BB. She was the one that convinced Bruce that Justice wasn't about revenge where Ra's philosophy of justice was the opposite. IMO, it's because of Rachel in BB is why Bats didn't kill the Joker in TDK or anyone intently in future movies. Here, in TDK, Rachel's character wasn't as prominent as it was in BB. TDK would've been better off casting Katie Holmes to reprise her role as Rachel just for the sake of continuity. It would've made her death scene more "feeling." As for "sexi-ness"...Katie is very sexy. She's tall , has a nice body, and a pretty face. Maggie just doesn't match Katie's sex appeal at all. Someone mentioned Maggie being sexy in a prior movie opposite James Spader. I saw that movie. The tension and chemistry between Spader and Maggie was sexy. However, in TDK, I felt none from Maggie with Bale and Eckhart.
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greggbray		#16	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 7255 07/21/08 9:20 AM Registered User	But Dent and Rachel's relationship wasn't based on sex. Neither was Rachel's relationship with Bruce. Honestly, there's more to romance/love/relationships than 'getting busy.' You are free to your preferences to whom you prefer physically, but I have a hard time understanding how anyone could have enjoyed BB's Rachel--she was filled wiht passive aggressive empty moral platitudes, and nothing else. Her dialogue felt flat. In fact, the audiences I viewed BB with laughed when she slapped Bruce. It was not convincing at all. Maggie brought far more to the role, and Jonah brought far more to the page. May I ask, to the gentlemen on the other side of the fence (and this is out of curiosity) how old are you? Thank you, 6 Joker 9 ! The preceeding post was intended for entertainment purposes only, and is, of course, in my humble opinion. Only friendly conversation was, and continues to be, intended.
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fritch23		#17	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 667 07/21/08 9:58 AM	Sorry but some of the closeups of Maggie made me choke back some up and coming vomit. Not an attractive woman at all and seriously there was 0 chemistry between her and Bale nor eckhart. i am sick to death of the Rachel character it never worked and it never will its a blah character and thanks to a lil kaboom we'll never see her again.
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LordCheez		#18	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 269 07/21/08 10:04 AM	I actually preferred Katie as well. I always felt her performance in Begins was unfairly and harshly criticized. Believe it or not, youngish-sounding voice aside, Katie's Rachel came off as a bit more mature to me in Begins. Maggie seemed a little smirky/giggly when doing her interrogation scene IMO. Not that it matters so much, but I also personally find Katie Holmes more attractive than Maggie.
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TheScarecrowAA		#19	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 2130 07/21/08 10:06 AM	It completely fizzled? No it didn't. According to the dialogue, she still had a thing for Bruce, which led him to believe that Rachel would wait for him. But did she? Bruce was the one wincing when Rachel and Harvey held hands. Rachel couldn't care less when Bruce walked up with Natasha, aside from the novelty he was trying to show them up. She was only interested in Dent there. When they kissed, who initiated it? Bruce. What did Rachel do at first? Tried to pull away. Rachel never wanted him and was simply going through the motions with him because she felt like she was obliged to feel something for him because she'd promised to. She knew she was his "only hope" and felt the pressure (because she cares about him) to provide some level of hope for him. I really don't think Rachel ever wanted Bruce in TDK at all. I never sensed it at any moments. I think she cared for Bruce the whole time - but not like he did her. She wanted Harvey the entire time.
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Batman is cool		#20	[url]	[-]
BOF'er Posts: 601 07/21/08 10:15 AM	greggbray wrote: But Dent and Rachel's relationship wasn't based on sex. Neither was Rachel's relationship with Bruce. Honestly, there's more to romance/love/relationships than 'getting busy.' You are free to your preferences to whom you prefer physically, but I have a hard time understanding how anyone could have enjoyed BB's Rachel--she was filled wiht passive aggressive empty moral platitudes, and nothing else. Her dialogue felt flat. In fact, the audiences I viewed BB with laughed when she slapped Bruce. It was not convincing at all. Maggie brought far more to the role, and Jonah brought far more to the page. May I ask, to the gentlemen on the other side of the fence (and this is out of curiosity) how old are you? I'm 18. Yeah, just go ahead and say that I'm just a stupid kid who doesn't know anything about film. I don't care. The reason I said I didn't feel anything when Maggie died is me and my buddies were laughing and one of 'em was like "get that b*tch out of there!" I didn't wholly agree with the feeling behind that but I thought it was funny, and hey, no matter how good TDK is, it's still a movie, Rachel's only a character, and I'm allowed to think however I want about its characters and make jokes about them. Fact is, if you know a lot about the history of film, movies themselves surround sexual themes and always feature lead actors that have to appeal to both sexes (Bale is tough, he's got all the money, guys appreciate that. He's good looking enough for women to adore him. Eckhart is the golden boy in this movie, and girls seem to find him one of the better-looking actors out there.) Now, Rachel, despite how she's supposedly characterized in the script (Nolan has been known to deviate from his screenplay anyway), was acceptable in Batman Begins. Katie Holmes managed to have a character that was toned down enough to where you thought about her character a little more (as opposed to say, Keira Knightley in POTC where I don't remember a whole lot of what she said because the director and make-up crew were trying their damnedest to make her look model-status the entire time). But Maggie Gyllenhaal stepped in, and played the role pretty well, even though her and Bale botched the only scene in TDK that may become cringe-worthy in ten years (the part where Bruce and Rachel kiss in the penthouse) because that scene seemed forced and contrived. Another fact is if you're under 20 chances are good that you don't find Maggie attractive in TDK. She looks pregnant in like 3 scenes and underwhelms in an overwhelming film. I'm sorry, call me shallow and ignorant. But she doesn't scream tentpole summer superhero movie lead actress to me. Maybe that was Chris Nolan's plan, get the least likely lead female you're likely to find in a summer comic-book flick, and then people will look at your work with a little more interest? That has to be the case, so I guess all of us will just have to deal with it.
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Did not like Maggie.....actually prefer Katie.

Did not like Maggie.....actually prefer Katie.

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